Koinonika in English

[frephraim]

See attached .pdf for my post.

Yes, that looks fine now. The only minor fix needed (in my opinion) is that you need to either put a klasma on the syneches elaphron in the English melody in your attached PDF file, or you need to use the beginning of the Greek melody in your attached PDF (which has a syndesmos and no klasma on the syneches elaphron). The reason you need to fix this is because as it is now, your melody has a three-beat measure in it, which neither of the Greek sources you are combining had.

As for your question #2, I'm quite sure that the ornate and simple cadences are interchangeable. I could probably prove it if I had these formulas codified.

 

[herron.samuel]

By the way, that compilation of papadic formulae for first mode is much larger now because I have included several formulae from Slavonic adaptations of Greek cherubic hymns as well as from unpublished manuscripts of transcriptions from the old notation. You can download this newer version now from our papadic formulae webpage, but it still isn't finished yet because I am about to include some formulae from Romanian cherubic hymns. I've had to make the "Key" more complicated to account for those non-Greek adaptations.

I'm considering also including Mitri el-Murr's formulae and other Arabic formulae, but I've never seen them and I don't know how traditional they are. Any suggestions?

As Basil can (and hopefully will) explain in much more detail, it seems there is no unified attempt in Arab Byzantine Music communities to maintain any sort of proper formulaic rules regarding emphasis. He can explain why in much better detail. I bring this up only to ask the following questions:

How do you decide on whether to use a foreign language source? Do you ever run into problems of just improper emphasis? How do you discern between improper emphasis and a new formula?

 

[frephraim]

How do you decide on whether to use a foreign language source? Do you ever run into problems of just improper emphasis? How do you discern between improper emphasis and a new formula?

I have answered your questions in a new thread.

 

[basil]

I'm having a hard time visualizing what this would look like. It would be great if you could post an example of this for us to see.

I will do so later today in the thread on Formulae in non-Greek Byzantine Music.

Good point. But what if we were to use a prelude melody for "Praise", followed by a 001 melody for "Praise the Lord"?

As I wrote above, I think this can work.

This sounds promising, but I would still like to see an example of how it would work in practice.

I've attached an example of how this can work in practice based on the first mode communion hymn by Ioasaph of Dionysiou. The prelude and the melody for "Praise ye" are virtually identical to the original. The melody for "the Lord" is mostly identical to the original, but the syllable repetition is as I proposed above. You might also notice that I removed a 0 from the formula (which is the second one on page 32 of your compilation), but I consider this acceptable since there is an identical formula (the first one on page 11 of your compilation) which doesn't have that 0.

 

[frephraim]

I've attached an example of how this can work in practice based on the first mode communion hymn by Ioasaph of Dionysiou.

Yes, that turned out very nicely. Thanks!

 

[basil]

I decided to finish up my adaptation of the first mode communion hymn by Ioasaph of Dionysiou. I've attached the score to this message.

 

[herron.samuel]

I composed this today. The formula for "praise Thy God" I got from Daniel Protopsaltis, along with the kratima and the Alleluia. The prelude I got from Petros Lampadarios, and the rest I pulled from Papa Ephraim's 1st Mode Papadic Formulas.Translation I pulled from the Divine Liturgy Music Project.

 

[frephraim]

I composed this today...

I think this composition turned out very well. I can't think of any way to improve it, but that doesn't mean no one else can.
The only thing I noticed was some very minor typos:

1. In page 2, line 6, there is no vertical measure line associated with the number "4".
2. Please check if the last ison in that same line is missing a psefiston.
3. In the following line you wrote "Z" instead of "Zi"
​

Keep up the good work!

 

[frephraim]

I decided to finish up my adaptation of the first mode communion hymn by Ioasaph of Dionysiou.

This also turned out very well. Thank you! Just two minor observations:

1. I'm not certain, but I think there should be two more "3's" in the end of line 2 on page 1 so that the psefiston ends up on the downbeat.
2. Also, I noticed that you put a "meaningless n" at the end of line 7 on page 1, where the Greek had a "meaningless chi." In my opinion, this English adaptation would be best with neither meaningless consonant there.
​

By the way, I've noticed that the "meaningless n" appears in places in formulas that (to my ears) really need a consonant, whereas the "meaningless chi" appears in places in formulas that (to my ears) don't seem to need a consonant so badly. If my ears are not deceiving me, then this observation means that we can get away with omitting many of those "meaningless chi's" from our English compositions. Besides, there is no corresponding sound in English for the Greek "chi", so I question whether or not it belongs at all in English compositions of Byzantine music. (This has already been discussed a little at: http://psaltologion.com/showthread.php?t=5205)

 

[herron.samuel]

When I started this thread I posted this Koinonikon. Both Basil and Papa Ephraim pointed out some faults in it and I declared I would re-write it. This is that revision. I kept some things from the original, but I completely changed "of the Body of Christ", choosing a Di-Di 1001 formula instead of repeating "Body" improperly as I did in the first one. I also added a Kratima (from Petros Lampadarios).

I found with the classical compositions of this piece that the whole phrase, "Σῶμα Χριστοῦ μεταλάβετε, πηγῆς ἀθανάτου γεύσασθε", was chanted before the starting of the kratima, then after the kratima they would repeat an ending phrase to finish it. The ending phrase varied in different compositions. In Balasios he repeated all of "πηγῆς ἀθανάτου γεύσασθε". I found a couple others like this.

However, it seemed all the compositions with kratimas in 1851 Mousiki Pandekti Volume 4 though chose to repeat "γεύσασθε", and to keep the musical phrase very short, similar to how short their "Alleluias" are in their other Koinonika. I chose this model and repeated "of Immortality" in mine.

As always, criticisms welcome.