Byzantine chant in Russia

Panagiotis

Γενικός συντονιστής
#21
Very interesting but the polyphonic music is so common in slavonic and Russian countries... The only country that I heard monophonic music is in Romania, Bucharest
Very interesting you used the term "monophonic" music (whether in purpose or accidentally I am not sure! :D)

I am afraid that many chanters in Romania use simply "monophonic" music (given that most chanting books are published in double notation-psaltic and linear). Of course there exist notable exceptions.

Another issue about which some colleagues from Romania and Bulgaria are complaining about is the trend to hellenize (and oxidize as one mentioned due to the use of the "oxeia") the existing psaltic music. Some melodies are bizarre for us (eg the chanting by the Romanians of "God is with us" in mode VIII irmologic from Ga or the Great Kanon Kontakion in mode VI sticheraric by the Bulgarians); yet I doubt that the substitution of these melodies by those used in Greece will greatly improve psaltic music in these countries. On the contrary it might become a stumbling block! :mad:
 

evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
#22
...yet I doubt that the substitution of these melodies by those used in Greece will greatly improve psaltic music in these countries. On the contrary it might become a stumbling block! :mad:
Panagiotie I agree that every nation has hiw own music tradition and way to express even the original chants, those that become from Greece and Constantinople tradition. The point is if our brothers recognise the fathership of these pices of art and if they know that the greek way is more correct and closer to the ancient one... For exsample here the herubikon in 1st mode (Let God made it soft diatonic...) is completely "out of balance"!
 

logdanov

Νέο μέλος
#23
The way Slavonic is pronounced in various countries in indeed different. I have learnt the Serbian pronunciation and my friends in Bulgaria make jokes about that (BlagOslovjen jEsi GOspodi... :D)
Serbian language has a system of rising (acute) and falling (gravis) accents combined with two lengths of vowels, that together make four accents - short rising, long rising, short falling and long falling. Further more, long vowels don't necessarily have to be accented which makes Serbian language & pronunciation even more complex.
The majority of other indoeuropean languages have only falling accents. Two rising accents in Serbian usually come one syllable before the "old" falling accent. Therefore, whatever you do with Serbian pronunciation while chanting, someone's ear will not be pleased. :D

Sadly the Serbs made the use of Mokranjac' s music compulsory and due to the country's ecclessiastical isolation studies in psaltic music have rather stagnated, though there are a few notable exceptions...
I think what Markellos has said about the complexity of practical use of the chant in Russia, could have been said for Serbia as well.

Throughout the history, ecclesiastical music in Serbia was not considered to be any different from "Byzantine" in general. Up until the end of 18th century, if they have used notation at all, Serbian chanters have been chanting from neumatic notation. The very last school of Byzantine music (old notation) in Serbian church has been established in 1819 in Budapest (there was a significant Serbian community at the time).

Serbian music begins to develop independently since the beginning of 19th century. The period since 1804 to 1838 was the time of continuos struggle against the Turks, and it happened at the same time with the adoption of the new method. Serbian chanters, alas, have never accepted Chrysathos notation, but have rather forgotten the old one instead.

Finally, Serbian chant was installed in seminaries as a local version of "the Greek chant" as it used to be called. It was thought that any unified system is better than no system at all. Therefore, Serbian chant was introduced to the churches in what today is known as FYROM.

Mokranjac has written down what has been chanted in churches almost a century later. The similar situation was in Austro-Hungarian parts of Romania, where Cuntana has done exactly the same job. Sometimes Mokranjac & Cuntana melodies differ only in language.

However, I don't recall any Serbian "ecclesiastical isolation" at any time. What did you have in mind actualy?

Can you please say who are "a few notable exceptions"? Did you mean historically or contemporary?

Thank you
 

Panagiotis

Γενικός συντονιστής
#24
Ι meant the isolation of the church in FYROM. Serbia, though severely tried, was never isolated in any way from the rest of the Orthodox communion.
 

logdanov

Νέο μέλος
#25
I'm sorry Panagioti; I don't understand what you are actually referring to.

For the sake of the truth, I must say that, to my knowledge, the only time when Serbian Church has been in isolation was in the 14th century, but the schism didn't last longer than 20 years. Yes, Serbian Church, had it's autocephalous Patriarchate during the Ottoman period between the 16th to the mid 18th century, but it cannot as nearly be qualify as "severely trying" to be isolated, because the Patriarchate was not in schism with the rest of the Orthodox world.

However, after the elimination of Serbian Patriarchate in the 18th century, Serbian people have neither attempted to regain their ecclesiastical autonomy by non-canonical means, nor have been excluded from the Orthodox communion for being nationalists, as the Bulgarian Exarchate once was (e.g.).

As the matter of fact, Serbian Patriarchate has been reestablished only after the WW1 with the consent and blessing from the Ecumenical patriarch.

As for the Church in FYROM, they have been given autonomy in the 50's, but then they have proclaimed autocephaly for themselves, supported by the communist regime. The problem persists only because they don't want to ask the canonical blessing from the Serbian Church.

The main problem in our Church remains, not the issue of self-isolation, but rather a question of accepting the wider, global-orthodox approach to the ecclesiastical art, which includes the manner of chanting as well. This issue causes somewhat of unsettlement amongst both clergy and laity.

Thank you
 

Panagiotis

Γενικός συντονιστής
#26
Ι meant that the Church in FYROM due to political as well as canonical reasons is now isolated, i.e. cannot send people to study psatic music in countries wherein it is both practiced and taught, the main one being Greece.

I trust however that this matter will be resolved some day (hopefully in my lifetime:)), in the same way the schism between the Patriarchate and the Bulgarian exarchate was healed. With God nothing is impossible.

I am afraid that the use of psaltic music in Serbia has a long way to go as pojanje is viewed by many as part of the Serb's spiritual heritage, as something almost sacred :(... Of course the fact that you and other people are actively interested in psaltic music is most comforting and I am sure that the members of this forum will answer your querries and aid you as much as they can. :)
 
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