About the irmologic 4th plagal mode

#1
Some of the irmologic songs of 4th plagal mode use GA as ison and the start of the diatonic scale is moved from NI to GA. This means that ZO is low (=occidental low ZO/Si) and KE is also lowered by quarter-tone.

I would like to ask about the intervals of the irmologic 4th plagal mode with ison NI. The books at my disposal do not say about its intervals and I was unable to find examples here on analogion. To me the irmologic 4th plagal mode with ison NI sounds more pleasant with the same scale as the mode with ison GA, i.e. with slightly lowered KE. Without the lowered KE the irmologic 4th plagal mode sounds like the encharmonic 3rd mode.

I'd like to ask also about the attractions (I learnt about them from this site). Is VU moving the same way as in 1th mode? And maybe KE is also moving because it is analogue to VU in the upper tetrachord?

In order to make your decision easier I have sung a popular hymn three times - with standard KE, with lowered KE and with lowered KE and attractions.

My last question in this thread is about the "Singing in Triphonia" (§88 of the book of Chrysanthos). According to Chrysanthos it was sung in the following way: neagie, ananes, neanes, nana, ananes, neanes, nana, ananes and so on. The scale that is formed by these melodies (ananes=+12, neanes=+10, nana=+8) has intervals 12-10-8-12-10-8-12, i.e. exactly the intervals in the 4th plagal mode from GA. Was this "Singing in Triphonia" used in some other cases? Are there triphonic scales 10-8-12-10-8-12-12 and 8-12-10-8-12-10-12?
 

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saltypsalti

Παλαιό Μέλος
#2
I am not sure what the nub of your questions are. If memory serves me, Plagal 4 Triphon. is the ni scale transposed to the ga, combined with the lower ni scale, and the two tetrachords joined at the Ga.

ni pa vou ga dhi ke zo
12 10 8 12 10 8

etc.
JPP

Some of the irmologic songs of 4th plagal mode use GA as ison and the start of the diatonic scale is moved from NI to GA. This means that ZO is low (=occidental low ZO/Si) and KE is also lowered by quarter-tone.

I would like to ask about the intervals of the irmologic 4th plagal mode with ison NI. The books at my disposal do not say about its intervals and I was unable to find examples here on analogion. To me the irmologic 4th plagal mode with ison NI sounds more pleasant with the same scale as the mode with ison GA, i.e. with slightly lowered KE. Without the lowered KE the irmologic 4th plagal mode sounds like the encharmonic 3rd mode.

I'd like to ask also about the attractions (I learnt about them from this site). Is VU moving the same way as in 1th mode? And maybe KE is also moving because it is analogue to VU in the upper tetrachord?

In order to make your decision easier I have sung a popular hymn three times - with standard KE, with lowered KE and with lowered KE and attractions.

My last question in this thread is about the "Singing in Triphonia" (§88 of the book of Chrysanthos). According to Chrysanthos it was sung in the following way: neagie, ananes, neanes, nana, ananes, neanes, nana, ananes and so on. The scale that is formed by these melodies (ananes=+12, neanes=+10, nana=+8) has intervals 12-10-8-12-10-8-12, i.e. exactly the intervals in the 4th plagal mode from GA. Was this "Singing in Triphonia" used in some other cases? Are there triphonic scales 10-8-12-10-8-12-12 and 8-12-10-8-12-10-12?
 
#3
I am not sure what the nub of your questions are. If memory serves me, Plagal 4 Triphon. is the ni scale transposed to the ga, combined with the lower ni scale, and the two tetrachords joined at the Ga.
My question is for example about kontakia. Does their scale have the same intervals as Plagal 4 triphon even though that their ison is not GA but NI?
 

Panagiotis

Γενικός συντονιστής
#4
It depends on the kontakion. Kontakia of mode pl.4 are either prosomoia of "As the first fruits of creation" or "To thee the champion leader" or idiomela (eg that of Pentecost).

Thus, in the first and third case we chant them from Ga; in the second case from Ni.

Jugding from your surname I think you use Church Slavonic as a worship language so I could use the slavic terminology if that helps you more.

Moreover, as co-ordinator of the sub-forum "psaltic music in other languages" (i.e. other than Greek :)) I bid you a most warm welcome.
 
#5
It depends on the kontakion. Kontakia of mode pl.4 are either prosomoia of "As the first fruits of creation" or "To thee the champion leader" or idiomela (eg that of Pentecost).

Thus, in the first and third case we chant them from Ga; in the second case from Ni.
Knowing the text in English helps. :) I found "To thee the champion leader" in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhYMmx-ySQ
There are only two instances of KE but they both are clear (not lowered as in 4th plagal triphonos). If this performance is representative it would mean that my assumption that all irmologic songs of 4th plagal mode have lowered ke regardless of their ison (GA or NI) is not correct.

Jugding from your surname I think you use Church Slavonic as a worship language so I could use the slavic terminology if that helps you more.

Moreover, as co-ordinator of the sub-forum "psaltic music in other languages" (i.e. other than Greek :)) I bid you a most warm welcome.
Thank you. I am from Bulgaria.

I think the song I have sung and attached in my first post is the Greek version of сѣдаленъ (kathisma?) "Премудрость и Слово". I chose it because it has ison NI and many instances of KE.
 

Panagiotis

Γενικός συντονιστής
#6
Dear friend,
The scanned file you included is indeed the original of the седален (κάθισμα) "Премудрост и слово" (Τὴν Σοφίαν καὶ Λόγον) (from Manasii Poptodorov I suppose? :))
Τhis piece is a bit "idiosyncratic" as it "combines" both melodies.
The kontakia of mode pl. 4 are подобни (προσόμοια) of either "Яко начатки естества" (Ὡς ἀπαρχὰς τῆς φύσεως) οr "Взбранной Воеводе" (Τῇ ὑπερμάχῳ στρατηγῷ). All other kontakia have their special melody. Fortunately both in Bulgaria and Greece since we use the Constantinople Typikon we don't need to worry too much about kontakia as we chant only one in the Liturgy! :D
As you can see from my posts http://www.analogion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322
http://www.analogion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2035
I visit Bulgaria (and countries of the former Yugoslavia) pretty often (in fact I will be in Sophia 1-4 January 2009) and I have a fairly good knowledge of the church slavonic language ( I also speak modern Bulgarian, although I tend to mix it with slavonic some times!:D). Please contact via personal message so we can get better aquainted over some "rakia". :)
 
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