Paleographic research in Greece

Shota

Παλαιό Μέλος
#1
I scanned and uploaded Simon Karas' lecture on paleographic research of Byzantine music in Greece (the first file contains the text, the second contains the accompanying diagrams and examples).

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?czobqmvnvdblv16

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?gdzis26pg7ylld8

In 1975 Karas together with the choir of the Society for Dissemination of National Music was invited to London to participate in Bach Festival. There he presented a lecture on the current status of the research on Byzantine music in Greece (i.e. his own research, as there was no other significant research at the time in Greece). Since Karas was getting requests to distribute the text of the lecture, it was later repeated in Athens in presence of distinguished audience and its text was printed.

The lecture largely deals with criticism of various views of Western scholars associated with MMB. It also presents Karas' views on short exegesis.

I don't think it is appropriate to upload it to the Greek part of the forum, but if anybody wants to do it, he's free to do so (and then see the results :D).
 

Nikolaos Giannoukakis

Παλαιό Μέλος
#2
Ι believe that the comment in the preceding post "as there was no other significant research at the time in Greece" is factually incorrect as Professor Grigorios Stathis was quite active at the time in Greece and internationally (indeed, his struggles against the prevailing theories of exegesis of paleography is legendary).

Just a small sampling of his works at the time:

1) Eπτάτομος Kατάλογος Tα Xειρόγραφα Bυζαντινής Mουσικής – Άγιον Όρος, (Volume 1 was published in 1975, Volume 2 in 1976, with another two following in later years). Indeed, this works was distinguished in 1976 by the Academy of Athens.

2) H Δεκαπεντασύλλαβος Yμνογραφία εν τη Bυζαντινή Mελοποιία; 1976)

3) Oι Aναγραμματισμοί και τα Mαθήματα της Bυζαντινής Mελοποιίας; 1978)

4) H Eξήγησις της Παλαιάς Bυζαντινής Σημειογραφίας (1977).

In the mid 70s, he also wrote a number of works many of which were presented at international conferences on paleography.

Grigoris Stathis is perhaps the most prolific of Greek scholars on the matter of that period who was also a part of the mainstream of chant of the time.

NG
 

Shota

Παλαιό Μέλος
#4
Ι believe that the comment in the preceding post "as there was no other significant research at the time in Greece" is factually incorrect as Professor Grigorios Stathis was quite active at the time in Greece and internationally (indeed, his struggles against the prevailing theories of exegesis of paleography is legendary).

Just a small sampling of his works at the time:

1) Eπτάτομος Kατάλογος Tα Xειρόγραφα Bυζαντινής Mουσικής – Άγιον Όρος, (Volume 1 was published in 1975, Volume 2 in 1976, with another two following in later years). Indeed, this works was distinguished in 1976 by the Academy of Athens.

2) H Δεκαπεντασύλλαβος Yμνογραφία εν τη Bυζαντινή Mελοποιία; 1976)

3) Oι Aναγραμματισμοί και τα Mαθήματα της Bυζαντινής Mελοποιίας; 1978)

4) H Eξήγησις της Παλαιάς Bυζαντινής Σημειογραφίας (1977).

In the mid 70s, he also wrote a number of works many of which were presented at international conferences on paleography.

Grigoris Stathis is perhaps the most prolific of Greek scholars on the matter of that period who was also a part of the mainstream of chant of the time.

NG
All these publications (of which only the 4th has direct link with exegesis of the old notation, but its relevance is largely limited to the 18th c.) postdate April 1975, when Karas' lecture was delivered in London.

I hold Stathis' work in high esteem, but it's a fact that for several decades Karas was the only one in Greece who showed interest and worked on the old Byzantine notation. Even now such a research is ridiculed in certain circles (of course their members conveniently forget the lively activity in musicological research back in the beginning of the 20th c. in Constantinople, which unfortunately got disrupted after the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey and ensuing cataclysms).

As far as legendary struggles are concerned, it is probably more appropriate to open a separate thread where we can look at facts (without legends).
 

Nikolaos Giannoukakis

Παλαιό Μέλος
#6
"lively activity in musicological research back in the beginning of the 20th c. in Constantinople, which unfortunately got disrupted after the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey and ensuing cataclysms".

Those scholars had direct links to the psaltae of old who knew how to interpret the stenography. Unfortunately, a lot of that work (handwritten notes, full treatises) is still under lock and key (electronic too!) of a small circle of modern day Greek academics.

As for other mid-20th century investigators, with the exception of Stathis (like him or hate him), a lot of creative hypotheses have been presented without any historic support.

The infamous "Key of Kiltzanides" still remains elusive.....even though some have claimed divine inspiration and intervention in the prologue of their works.

NG
 
E

emakris

Guest
#7
...a lot of creative hypotheses have been presented...
And I present a creative cut of Mr. Giannoukakis' message:

Unfortunately, a lot of that work (handwritten notes, full treatises) is still under lock and key (electronic too!) of a small circle of modern day Greek academics... with the exception of Stathis (like him or hate him), without any historic support.
:D:D:D:wink:
 

Nikolaos Giannoukakis

Παλαιό Μέλος
#8
My comment was intended to remind the readers that there were others who studied paleography in the 70s and one individual does not hold exclusive rights to this claim, nor is it appropriate to grant exclusivity of an activity to one individual. Stathis (again, what one thinks of him as a person or his historical relevance in the study of paleography is not the point of my note) was just as relevant in the 70s.

Nothing more, nothing less. Every reader can read Karas and Stathis and make up their mind about the validity of their use of historical documents, the validitiy of their interpretation of historical documents, their accumen of mainstream chant in practice, their understanding of the oral traditions, whether they worked outside or within the mainstream of practical ecclesiastic chant and oral tradition and so on.

Once Pergamos opens up (some day!), I believe a vast new fertile ground will be allotted for scholars to further explore the field and, hopefully, in a manner that will be unbiased by any of the current views.

NG
 
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domesticus

Lupus non curat numerum ovium
#9
I hold Stathis' work in high esteem, but it's a fact that for several decades Karas was the only one in Greece who showed interest and worked on the old Byzantine notation. Even now such a research is ridiculed in certain circles (of course their members conveniently forget the lively activity in musicological research back in the beginning of the 20th c. in Constantinople, which unfortunately got disrupted after the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey and ensuing cataclysms).
I think you confuse research and the results of the research. The first is respected the second ...
 

Shota

Παλαιό Μέλος
#10
Since nobody has offered his opinion on Karas' lecture, here is mine :D First of all, one shouldn't forget that it was meant for broad audience and not for musicologists only. Nevertheless

1) Karas doesn't justify many of the analyseis of the signs that he gives. I don't think he gives the corresponding argumentation in some other of his publications, but I might be mistaken here.

2) Karas doesn't give particularly convincing reasons for accepting long exegesis in some pieces and short in others.

3) I don't think that Karas' treatment of rhythm and chromaticism issues is particularly deep.

But of course the man knew more than he writes here.
 
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