Music In The Orthodox Church - An Interview

GabrielCremeens

Music Director at St. George, Albuquerque, NM
An interview with Fr. Panteleimon Papadopoulos of the Archdiocesan School of Byzantine Music, our own beloved Dr. Grammenos Karanos, Assistant Professor of Byzantine Music at Hellenic College/Holy Cross, and Dr. Vicki Pappas, former president of the National Forum. This interview was filmed during the summer of 2013.

Music In The Orthodox Church (Discovering Orthodox Christianity)

From the YouTube video "about" section:

Discussion Questions:
1. What are the distinctive qualities of Byzantine chant and music?
2. How does the music of the Orthodox Church fit into the life of the Church?
3. What are the different tones in Byzantine chant?
4. Do the hymns and responses constitute prayers or are they simply responses to the priest or officiating bishop?
5. Should the faithful simply listen or join in with the cantor or choir?
6. Is the music of the Church today the same as it was centuries ago or has it evolved?
7. How can I learn to participate if I don't know Byzantine music?
8. What is the National Forum of Greek Orthodox Church Musicians?

I'm sure this will prove interesting and helpful to many. :)

-Gabriel
 

romanos4

Παλαιό Μέλος
I watched this last night - highlights were the impressive chanting of Dr Karanos and the addressing of the notions of instrumentation in the church - of course the organ issue was avoided...and why "both choirs and chanting" was not actually addressed though beyond the scope and intent of the video.

Lastly, when Ms. Spanos asked if compositions need to get approved and Pappas responded quickly with "no" - my reaction was "...and that's why we are where we are today".
 

Nikolaos Giannoukakis

Παλαιό Μέλος
Ms. Pappas is wrong.

EVERY new composition for consideration in the church has to get approved Synodically. Just because the Synod of the Archdiocese has not enforced this practice (in contrast to the Patriarchate) does not mean that "anything is permitted so long as the majority of the parishes accepts it".

With Ms. Pappas' logic, in twenty years, Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber will become de riguer in our faith.

There were other comments that are not in line with our church's teachings, but those, I will comment on at a later time.....

NG
 

neoklis

Νεοκλής Λευκόπουλος, Γενικός Συντονιστής
... EVERY new composition for consideration in the church has to get approved Synodically. ...
This is definitely not the case in Greece and I don't know why it should so in the US or anywhere else. It's not a matter of faith, although there are such implications. Our bookstores are full pf books with new compositions that nobody has approved and which are chanted in many churches, of which some (or many) I personally would consider unacceptable. Of course this does not mean that
"anything is permitted so long as the majority of the parishes accepts it"
.
 

Nikolaos Giannoukakis

Παλαιό Μέλος
Dear Neoklis,

The proper course of action prior to the 1970s, and the EXPECTED course of action of any new book by the psaltae of old time was to submit it to the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece and/or the Ecumenical Patriarchate. If you read through the letters by the Synods/Patriarchs/Archbishops prior to the introductions of many of the books published by the psaltae of old-time, you will see that the letters were, in addition to letters of blessings, concurrently critical.

This was expected by the church. In fact, I believe the specific Canon in the Pedalion on the "psallete apo diftheras" also has a note about chanting only from APPROVED sources (please correct me if I am wrong).

So, if it is a Canonical matter to use music from approved sources, then, anything arbitrary is un-Canonical.

The practice of the Ecumenical Patriarchate was even more severe. I am sure you are aware that a number of books submitted to the Patriarchate from the late 18th century to the early 19th were NOT approved for ecclesiastical use (Nikolaos of Smyrna comes to mind) and this was strictly enforced in the churches of Constantinople.

If there is no authority to decide what is ecclesiastically-acceptable and what is not, then, everything becomes relative.

The "kat' oikonomia" has been abused so much to the point where (for example) "kat' oikonomia" (in the US and Canada) wedding services include harps, cellos, chamber music ensembles, Celine Dion songs in place of the Axion Estin (those that I know of and....experienced). This, in addition to the multipart harmony that has absolutely no place in any Orthodox service (remember the Patriarchal decisions of the late 18th century on the matter).

NG
 

apostolos

Απόστολος Κομπίτσης
I was also a bit disappointed by the interview. Obviously, and for reasons that were clearly in the interest of "political correctness", topics such as the organ in the church, four-part harmony and western musical phrasings (e.g. point/counterpoint, fugue, etc.) in "modern" compositions were avoided. Poor Professor Karanos was trying very hard to hold his own (which he did beautifully, in my opinion), despite the comments made by Vicky Pappas. Her answer regarding approval of hymns of, "Not really" was absolutely pathetic, and clearly shows her lack of understanding of our hymnological history. Ms. Pappas has blinders on, and only knows hymnology as it pertains to the United States of America; she can't see beyond that. Oh, I'm sure she might have read some articles and had some discussions with people, but her agenda is her agenda, as is that of the National Forum of Greek Orthodox Church Musicians, which should be STRIPPED of ANY responsibility and authority regarding Byzantine Music. (They can write all of the four-part requiems their little hearts desire, but leave Byzantine Music alone.) Also, she kept calling them "songs", rather "hymns" or "troparia", and that was really getting on my nerves. (SONGS...??)

The other comment I was dismayed about was Deacon Papadopoulos's response to the question of, "How do chanters know what to sing?" He responded by saying (roughly), "Every year the Patriarchate publishes the Great Typikon, or the Hmerologion of the Great Church of Christ." Really?? The TYPIKON is published EVERY YEAR?? Why could he not talk about the ACTUAL Typikon of the Great Church of Christ, the one last published by Giorgos Violakis and approved by the Patriarchal Synod, and which is the first and foremost authoritative book on matters of rubrics at the Analogion? Why not then mention that this is the book on which all Hmerologia, Dypticha, and other publications are BASED? Why are not the CORRECT answers given to these questions?

I feel that there could have been a better series of questions, one that discussed a little more of the history of Byzantine Music (WHY it's called "Byzantine", where it began and how it evolved), WHY we do not allow instruments, WHY we have only a melody line with an ison drone to "support" this melody, and WHY four-part harmony is not used. There were still too many unanswered questions.

With much sadness, I maintain that this Archdiocese (and now, all of our Metropolises) are content with mediocrity. What a shame.

Apostolos
 

gpsevdos

Παλαιό Μέλος
To discuss the issue of the organ requires courage. Especially in the presence of Ms. Pappas!
 
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