Mode, Tone or Echos?

[Dimitri]

Related topic A Call for Standardization.

Some people translate ήχος to mode. Others prefer tone. Others prefer the transliteration echos.

Often people that use the term tone tend to also use numbers to indicate it e.g. Tone 1 (equiv. Fist Mode), Tone 5 (equiv. Plagal First Mode).

Then there is the issue of Plagal or Plagios which is ignored if one uses Tone <number> terminology.

I personally like and use First Mode, Second Mode..., Plagal First Mode, ... Plagal Fourth Mode. I personally find that they are closer to the traditional expression of the Greek terms. What are the arguments for using the other terminologies?

Then there is the issue of Barys, Varys, Grave, Tone 7 ...

Thank you.

 

[saltypsalti]

Related topic A Call for Standardization.

Some people translate Þ÷ïò to mode. Others prefer tone. Others prefer the transliteration echos.

Often people that use the term tone tend to also use numbers to indicate it e.g. Tone 1 (equiv. Fist Mode), Tone 5 (equiv. Plagal First Mode).

Then there is the issue of Plagal or Plagios which is ignored if one uses Tone <number> terminology.

I personally like and use First Mode, Second Mode..., Plagal First Mode, ... Plagal Fourth Mode. I personally find that they are closer to the traditional expression of the Greek terms. What are the arguments for using the other terminologies?

Then there is the issue of Barys, Varys, Grave, Tone 7 ...

Thank you.

There is the same nomenclatural dichotomy in the Gregorian chant world. When I type out melodies, I just use the Greek long martyrica form in EZ font set to establish and leave it at that.

I think we have more or less settled on Grave in HOCNA, although I must confess that the eclectic and conflated nature of Grave Mode in some people's eyes (as well as a couple of others -hard and soft chromatic 2nd and Plagal 2nd, the whole gaggle of 4th Mode to name a few) is somewhat confusing.

The Russian system as I understand is a little closer to the definition of a "tone" as I understand it, particularly in the old chant forms -i.e. esp. Znammeny chants which are derived from a single modal scale -yet each "glas" is a seperate melodic formula. The "Byzantine" system operates closer in some respects to the Gregorian and old western chant model, that assigns groupings to different modal scale base points

I use "mode" but I am not taking sides here.

JPP

PS -not to scandalize I work in a health profession, and get a little chuckle from the use of the abbreviation for Byzantine Music (BM) used on this list. Eats shoots and leaves.

 

[saltypsalti]

Could this be perhaps retitled -Mode-ivational therapy for the Tone deaf?

 

[frephraim]

When I asked Dimitri Conomos about "mode" vs. "tone," he said that musicologists unanimously agree that "mode" is the proper term and that "tone" has an entirely different meaning, as can be seen in any English dictionary of music terms. In other words, musicologists view this issue as a closed case. The confusion only exists in Orthodox circles, and I believe it can be attributed to the early English translations of liturgical texts, which were made by people who were not familiar with musicology.

 

[saltypsalti]

When I asked Dimitri Conomos about "mode" vs. "tone," he said that musicologists unanimously agree that "mode" is the proper term and that "tone" has an entirely different meaning, as can be seen in any English dictionary of music terms. In other words, musicologists view this issue as a closed case. The confusion only exists in Orthodox circles, and I believe it can be attributed to the early English translations of liturgical texts, which were made by people who were not familiar with musicology.

I'm "mode"-ivated in that direction.

JPP

 

[saltypsalti]

[No message]

 

[Nikolaos Giannoukakis]

I concur with "Mode", and "Grave"-

although I plead guilty of interchanging Tone and Mode on a number of occasions.

We need Mode-ivation

NG

 

[saltypsalti]

When I asked Dimitri Conomos about "mode" vs. "tone," he said that musicologists unanimously agree that "mode" is the proper term and that "tone" has an entirely different meaning, as can be seen in any English dictionary of music terms. In other words, musicologists view this issue as a closed case. The confusion only exists in Orthodox circles, and I believe it can be attributed to the early English translations of liturgical texts, which were made by people who were not familiar with musicology.

Most of the early use in English was largely of the Slavic flavour, and indeed used something that could arguably be termed, as I mentioned earlier, as a "tone" or "glas" (in the Slavonic)

JPP