herron.samuel
Ieropsaltis
I wrote this out today. Criticisms most welcome.
Adaptation of sticheraric Τῇ ὑπερμάχῳ
- Thread starter herron.samuel
- Start date
Thanks for sharing this with us.
One thing you might consider changing is the repetition of the words "we may cry to thee." The problem with this is that the entire phrase is "THAT we may cry to thee." Repetition of words and syllables is allowed in Byzantine chant, but the repeated part should make sense as an independent unit. By omitting the word "that", the word "may" in the phrase "we may cry to thee" could have the sense of "maybe".
This is just my opinion, and perhaps I'm being a little too fussy.
One thing you might consider changing is the repetition of the words "we may cry to thee." The problem with this is that the entire phrase is "THAT we may cry to thee." Repetition of words and syllables is allowed in Byzantine chant, but the repeated part should make sense as an independent unit. By omitting the word "that", the word "may" in the phrase "we may cry to thee" could have the sense of "maybe".
This is just my opinion, and perhaps I'm being a little too fussy.
herron.samuel
Ieropsaltis
It's a valid concern. My fix would be to replace "to" the first time it appears in the phrase with "that". Is this acceptable?
That does solve the problem I mentioned, but it creates a worse one in the first pass through those words: "That we may cry"!
herron.samuel
Ieropsaltis
Any suggestions then? I've got nothing...
saltypsalti
Παλαιό Μέλος
I am curious whose comp. you used as a model? I am not immediately familiar, although it sounds familiar.
I am scanning the piece right now, Sam, so I am "shooting frm the hip". I like it. It is more extended hiermologic than sticheraric in its style. A couple of spots stick out to me. The chronos feels a tad stinted in the melisma you have for "dangers" particularly around the syneches. I might also consider changing that phrasing break between "dangers" and "that can be". It seems odd to me to break the flow of the text musically in that way when there is no comma in the text.
I am not at my computer, but at work, so I can't de and re-construct it very well and be able to read it.
Thanks for your able comments the other day. They were highly appreciated.
PS -Congratulations Sam!
I am scanning the piece right now, Sam, so I am "shooting frm the hip". I like it. It is more extended hiermologic than sticheraric in its style. A couple of spots stick out to me. The chronos feels a tad stinted in the melisma you have for "dangers" particularly around the syneches. I might also consider changing that phrasing break between "dangers" and "that can be". It seems odd to me to break the flow of the text musically in that way when there is no comma in the text.
I am not at my computer, but at work, so I can't de and re-construct it very well and be able to read it.
Thanks for your able comments the other day. They were highly appreciated.
PS -Congratulations Sam!
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Dear Samuel,
You did a fine job overall.
I noticed that there are many places where the textual accentuation of your adaptation does not match the musical accentuation. For example, in the first line you have the stressed syllable "Lead" where there is the unstressed syllable "τη" in the original. Worse, you have the unstressed syllable "er" where there is the stressed syllable "γώ" in the original. Similarly, in the second phrase you have the stressed syllable "giv" where there is the unstressed syllable "δει" in the original, and the unstressed syllable "ing" where there is the stressed syllable "νών" in the original.
This problem was first observed by Papa Ephraim, who wrote in his Workshop:
The line "from all dangers that can be do thou deliver us" has the pattern 0010001000100; the line "εκ παντοίων με κινδύνων ελευθέρωσον" has the pattern 0010001000100. You should have been able to directly match each syllable of the English to its corresponding syllable in the Greek. Unfortunately, you placed the syllable "thou" where there is no new syllable in the Greek. As a result, the unstressed syllable "er" was forced into a position where a stressed syllable belongs ("θέ"). A similar error can be seen in the last line of the piece, where you have the unstressed syllable "un" where a stressed syllable belongs ("νύμ").
Beside the accentuation problems, I noticed that you preserved the original Greek melody for the phrases "αναγράφω σοι" and "εκ παντοίων με." The English text for these phrases ("as ones rescued out" and "from all dangers that") does indeed have the same 00100 pattern as the Greek text for these phrases. However, it is important to note that both Greek phrases are self-contained grammatical units. In contrast, the English phrases (as you have divided them) are not. In "as ones rescued out," the word "out" begins a prepositional phrase; in "from all dangers that," the word "that" begins a relative clause. Having a word that begins a new grammatical unit at the end of a musical phrase is problematic, since it obscure the comprehensibility of the text. Whereas you have split the text as: "as ones rescued out / of suff'rings" and "from all dangers that / can be," I believe that a better choice would be to split the text as: "as ones rescued / out of suff'rings" and "from all dangers / that can be."
I've attached to this post my own adaptation of this composition by Ioannis Arvanitis, which takes these considerations into account.
Basil
You did a fine job overall.
I noticed that there are many places where the textual accentuation of your adaptation does not match the musical accentuation. For example, in the first line you have the stressed syllable "Lead" where there is the unstressed syllable "τη" in the original. Worse, you have the unstressed syllable "er" where there is the stressed syllable "γώ" in the original. Similarly, in the second phrase you have the stressed syllable "giv" where there is the unstressed syllable "δει" in the original, and the unstressed syllable "ing" where there is the stressed syllable "νών" in the original.
This problem was first observed by Papa Ephraim, who wrote in his Workshop:
The line "from all dangers that can be do thou deliver us" has the pattern 0010001000100; the line "εκ παντοίων με κινδύνων ελευθέρωσον" has the pattern 0010001000100. You should have been able to directly match each syllable of the English to its corresponding syllable in the Greek. Unfortunately, you placed the syllable "thou" where there is no new syllable in the Greek. As a result, the unstressed syllable "er" was forced into a position where a stressed syllable belongs ("θέ"). A similar error can be seen in the last line of the piece, where you have the unstressed syllable "un" where a stressed syllable belongs ("νύμ").
Beside the accentuation problems, I noticed that you preserved the original Greek melody for the phrases "αναγράφω σοι" and "εκ παντοίων με." The English text for these phrases ("as ones rescued out" and "from all dangers that") does indeed have the same 00100 pattern as the Greek text for these phrases. However, it is important to note that both Greek phrases are self-contained grammatical units. In contrast, the English phrases (as you have divided them) are not. In "as ones rescued out," the word "out" begins a prepositional phrase; in "from all dangers that," the word "that" begins a relative clause. Having a word that begins a new grammatical unit at the end of a musical phrase is problematic, since it obscure the comprehensibility of the text. Whereas you have split the text as: "as ones rescued out / of suff'rings" and "from all dangers that / can be," I believe that a better choice would be to split the text as: "as ones rescued / out of suff'rings" and "from all dangers / that can be."
I've attached to this post my own adaptation of this composition by Ioannis Arvanitis, which takes these considerations into account.
Basil
Nikolaos Giannoukakis
Παλαιό Μέλος
Dear Basil,
Your adaptation is terrific
Between you and Sam (and Fr. Ephraim!) keep up the wonderful work. As challenging as it is, it serves a very large community.
NG
Your adaptation is terrific
Between you and Sam (and Fr. Ephraim!) keep up the wonderful work. As challenging as it is, it serves a very large community.
NG