About parachord

SergM

Νέο μέλος
I have a question about parachord. In the Slavonic Mineinik (page 197) there is such an example.
page_0001.pngpage_0002.png
On the second page, diatonic phthora VOU placed on DI, cadence on PA. I don’t understand, where does the whole scale shift to?
There are two options, which one is correct?
parachord.png
 

evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
It is similar reason as for the question you did for legetos here
The third vou - di is equal to ni - vou =major third. Here mesos second vou is transformed to plagios forth and legetos in di has small third this time.
 

evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
All the diagrams you attached are wrong. They should much in the same position all the main notes of the thirds, ni vou di! It is 200 years mistakes 😊 Here I show the relationship between Varys (or legetos or mesos-middle second ) and plagios forth
13_Kanonio_Varys_Pld_mesosdeyteros.jpg
 
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evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
To plagios fourth? Not to first?
Do you see any first mode on vou? Whether do you mean first on GA? I try to make it more clear :
Plagios forth on vou from mesos second. Plagios first on GA from nenano( red arrow).
 

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SergM

Νέο μέλος
Do you see any first mode on vou? Whether do you mean first on GA? I try to make it more clear :
Plagios forth on vou from mesos second. Plagios first on GA from nenano( red arrow).
Yes, plagios first on GA. Where will this GA be relative to the original GA?
 

evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
Yes, plagios first on GA. Where will this GA be relative to the original GA?
second mode :
vou 9 ga 15 di 6 ke 12 zo 9 ni
after pthora on di :
vou 15 ga 9 di 6 ke 12 zo 12 ni

But those scales- intervals I gave you are not fixed. In ancient notation they didn't use any pthora ,they knew how to perform.
When the melody stands on ga it is a bit lower ga di =12. The paralage philosophy as I have understood is that any note can be another at the same time ,so plagios first is at the same time nenano and mesos second is at the same time plagios forth or varys
 

SergM

Νέο μέλος
second mode :
vou 9 ga 15 di 6 ke 12 zo 9 ni
after pthora on di :
vou 15 ga 9 di 6 ke 12 zo 12 ni

But those scales- intervals I gave you are not fixed. In ancient notation they didn't use any pthora ,they knew how to perform.
When the melody stands on ga it is a bit lower ga di =12. The paralage philosophy as I have understood is that any note can be another at the same time ,so plagios first is at the same time nenano and mesos second is at the same time plagios forth or varys
ΟΚ. Thanks, thanks.
 

SergM

Νέο μέλος
Returning to this topic. This is the melody of the known prosomia "Ποίοις εὐφημιῶν στέμμασιν", second mode. Is there anywhere in the Greek books the notes of this prosomia with such a cadence in Ga? Or is it a Slavic invention? There is no such cadence in the versions that I have seen.
 

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evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
Returning to this topic. This is the melody of the known prosomia "Ποίοις εὐφημιῶν στέμμασιν", second mode. Is there anywhere in the Greek books the notes of this prosomia with such a cadence in Ga? Or is it a Slavic invention? There is no such cadence in the versions that I have seen.
Of course it does, look "Δοξαστάριον, Ιακώβου Πρωτοψάλτου". It is the same exactly thing represented in Ni (Νη) chord instead of vou( Βου) chord. This also is a proof for same behavior of "The system of three" , so second mode is also plagios 4th ath the same time: the same happens in vou as in ni chords
1683010210786.png
 
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SergM

Νέο μέλος
Of course it does, look "Δοξαστάριον, Ιακώβου Πρωτοψάλτου". It is the same exactly thing represented in Ni (Νη) chord instead of vou( Βου) chord.
Ok. Thanks.

This also is a proof for same behavior of "The system of three" , so second mode is also plagios 4th ath the same time: the same happens in vou as in ni chords
Is there a file of presentation somewhere that was shown on the screen? Almost nothing is visible in this video.
 

SergM

Νέο μέλος
I want to notice to you that in this online quarter tone piano you can practice on the intervals that I recommend you and the logic of paralage, very effective!!! 💖 https://sites.uniarts.fi/web/quartertonepiano/play-online
I have my own piano. When I was developing it, I wasn't trying to create a music theory, I was just looking for a convenient keyboard layout on which I could get all the Byzantine modes, including the parachords. As a result, I found a layout of 17 keys per octave with unequal intervals. But it only works well only with the Chrysanthos tuning. Almost well... just this parachord (Pa on Ga) I have made incorrectly. In order for it to be correct, it is necessary to equalize the intervals of Pa-Vou and Vou-Ga in diatonic, i.e. instead of the Chrysanthos 12/11, take a close number √(32/27).

This is very similar to temperament in Western music, although for a different purpose. Deliberately move away from the exact numbers to make any modulation convenient. Most melodies allow different tuning options from Chrysanthos to Western. This one is an exception, but how frequent are such modulations?
 

evangelos

Ευάγγελος Σολδάτος
I have my own piano. When I was developing it, I wasn't trying to create a music theory, I was just looking for a convenient keyboard layout on which I could get all the Byzantine modes, including the parachords. As a result, I found a layout of 17 keys per octave with unequal intervals. But it only works well only with the Chrysanthos tuning. Almost well... just this parachord (Pa on Ga) I have made incorrectly. In order for it to be correct, it is necessary to equalize the intervals of Pa-Vou and Vou-Ga in diatonic, i.e. instead of the Chrysanthos 12/11, take a close number √(32/27).

This is very similar to temperament in Western music, although for a different purpose. Deliberately move away from the exact numbers to make any modulation convenient. Most melodies allow different tuning options from Chrysanthos to Western. This one is an exception, but how frequent are such modulations?
Nice application, congratulation for it!
If you made the intervals of the scale to be parametric, it would be the best.
The point for all Im saying is that the mainstream intervals and Chrysanthos intervals are wrong or at least not accurate and for all cases and modes.
For example the Vou note is not so low in plagios forth as Chrysanthos says, it is the same as do(ni) re mi(vou). Also Vou in first mode is much lower etc.
My research bottom line is that the true intervals are based on Aristoxenus harmonic theory plus the logic of parallage as it is explained by J. Koukouzeles and I. Plousiadinos.
 

SergM

Νέο μέλος
Nice application, congratulation for it!
If you made the intervals of the scale to be parametric, it would be the best.
Thought about it, but it's not that simple. Inside the application there is a whole system of linked tables. For each mode and each key it is necessary to provide tuning, label, mapping to MIDI key, activity (some keys may not be used in this mode), activity for pitch corrector (should the voice stick to this key or not). In addition, there are also mixed modes, where several modes are superimposed together and switched depending on the ison - need the rules of switching. It's just hard to figure it out in order to change something.
After all, 17 keys are a compromise, they are not convenient for every tuning. Later I added the "normal" tuning of 1881 (12-10-8), but it lacks some parachords (for example, Ni on Ga) - there are not enough keys.
 
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