Westernized Doxology?

[MakariosC]

So someone asked me about this Great Doxology; it's a performance of a Catholic translation/transcription into western notation.

I've heard a Greek version in Greek parishes in the US (and I think the performance is only ... roughly... synced to the Greek version) but can't easily find a recording of the "original".


Is this derived from a Doxology by someone like John Sakellarides? Is there a decent recording of the Greek somewhere? And finally, am I mistaken that the Greek version is generally considered a... shall we say... simplified Western-style melody?

Thank you!

 

[joel]

It does sound like Sakellarides’ third mode doxology. I am having trouble finding a non-harmonized recording in Greek. Here is a recording of parts of it (almost all of the left chanter is cut out):

 

[MakariosC]

Thank you, yeah that's it - sorry, I feel dumb now for not finding his name in Greek and doing a Greek search.

 

[balgiota]

So someone asked me about this Great Doxology; it's a performance of a Catholic translation/transcription into western notation.

I've heard a Greek version in Greek parishes in the US (and I think the performance is only ... roughly... synced to the Greek version) but can't easily find a recording of the "original".


Is this derived from a Doxology by someone like John Sakellarides? Is there a decent recording of the Greek somewhere? And finally, am I mistaken that the Greek version is generally considered a... shall we say... simplified Western-style melody?

Thank you!

Hello Mr. colleague!
I hope with this message I facilitate the discussion. From what I can understand, it looks a lot like Sakelaridies or it may be a slightly altered version. I suppose that this particular composition was chosen because it is extremely simple to write and is a solution for learning Byzantine Music at the beginning stagesif someone is a chanter. I cannot understand what exactly is meant in the last sentence. Could you explain it a little better if you have the kindness?

 

[MakariosC]

Thank you Balgiota! Yes it definitely seems to be derived from Sakellarides.

I meant that people generally consider it a westernized melody, and not representative of what we want to teach as far as psaltic art. (and for the last post, that since I suspected that it was by Sakellarides, I could've just found it by doing the obvious thing and searching YouTube for "doxology" and "Sakellarides")

 

[balgiota]

Thank you Balgiota! Yes it definitely seems to be derived from Sakellarides.

I meant that people generally consider it a westernized melody, and not representative of what we want to teach as far as psaltic art. (and for the last post, that since I suspected that it was by Sakellarides, I could've just found it by doing the obvious thing and searching YouTube for "doxology" and "Sakellarides")

You're welcome! I hope that my reply would be useful! As far as Byzantine Music is concerned, i want to tell you the following commennt in a general level: we have a huge musical culture and we don't give it the importance it should!
I would also like to note that: precisely because there is no vocal training in the art of singing, unfortunately, terrible misconceptions have been created regarding the voice as well as the treatment of those who come into contact with music and want to learn. If you are interested, we can discuss it in more detail.
Regarding for compositions of Sakellarides, if you want and are interested, I could send you texts so that a first attempt at a comparative study can be made.

 

[MakariosC]

Thanks, and sorry for not replying earlier - I was actually in Greece while you made this reply and only had my phone (i generally don't like typing on my phone. ). I've fine with Sakellarides; I was just trying to confirm that Doxology is derived from his.

I would also like to note that: precisely because there is no vocal training in the art of singing, unfortunately, terrible misconceptions have been created regarding the voice as well as the treatment of those who come into contact with music and want to learn. If you are interested, we can discuss it in more detail.

this is interesting - I've noticed, mostly in older recordings of Byzantine Chant, folks singing in ways western vocal teachers would not recommend or otherwise sound bad to western ears (in contrast, more recent recordings - e.g. the early Simonopetra tapes/CDs on - sound good even to the western ear - note that I don't think "good Greek singing" began with Simonopetra, it's just what I'm aware of due to the very narrow range of tapes CDs available in the US in the 2000s). This is something I've been a bit curious about.