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  #11  
Παλιά 13-01-16, 14:49
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saltypsalti saltypsalti is offline
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From what I observe, the same people continue to propagate the Greek-American choir repertoire with dwindling numbers when younger folks and seminarians, both male and female, are chanting with joy and vigor.
Success really depends on how strongly the local priest and bishop are willing to put behind it, and are willing to weather a storm of kvetching parishioners. Many a valiant effort seems to rise or fall on what the clergy see as the greater "pastoral need", right or wrong. My job as protopsaltis of my diocese is to vie for their attention to keep necessity of proper Ψαλτικη before their eyes. Not always easy and will probably be the death of me.

JPP
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  #12  
Παλιά 13-01-16, 16:02
domesticus domesticus is offline
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The most recent Orthodox Observer http://www.goarch.org/news/observer/...nload/issuePDF has provided perhaps both reasons to cheer and reasons to jeer:

1) Page 10 provides an advertisement for a bilingual publication of Violakis's Typikon, published by the Metropolis of Denver Church Music Federation. This should prove hopefully useful in terms of the education of those who wish to seriously pursue chanting

2) Page 23 "The Oloi Mazi Committee":

by Maria Keritsis
NEW YORK – The “Oloi Mazi” (pro- nounced Olee MazEE) team of the Na- tional Forum of Greek Orthodox Church Musicians met at Archdiocese headquar- ters Nov. 16–18 to continue development of music for the upcoming standard Greek and English texts for the Divine Liturgy.

This was one of a series of meetings that the team has held during the past 10 years. The current priority is to prepare the Greek/English musical arrangements for a new congregational hymnal for par- ish use. Once the Archdiocese releases the text for the Divine Liturgy, the team will provide the music for the congrega- tional hymnal as well as a choral version for choirs.

During the three-day meeting, the “Oloi Mazi” (Greek for “all together”) team met with Archbishop Demetrios to review the work of the committee. His Eminence provided wisdom and further direction to the team members. Later that afternoon, Bishop Sebastian met with the team for an update on the project and advised them on the work and timelines of the Holy Synod regarding the translations. Once the Holy Synod releases the Divine Liturgy, the hymnal will be ready to go to press.

Metropolitan Methodios, the liaison with the Holy Synod, has asked that tradi- tional melodies be used. The new hymnal will replace the green book produced by Ernie Villas years ago and that is still used in many parishes today. The team will continue its work to set to music the Apolytikia, Kontakia and other hymns as the Holy Synod approves the text.
When the congregational hymnal is completed, the National Forum will use the team to continue work to revise the hymns of the Orthodox Church instruc- tional series, which will also include the new English texts and music. The Forum is coordinating this project with Dr. Anton Vrame, director of Religious Education, for use in parish religious education programs.

Oloi Mazi team members include Maria Keritsis, National Forum chairman; Dr. Vicki Pappas, committee chairman; Fr. Chrysostomos Gilbert of New York, Dr. Tikey Zes of San Jose Calif;, Dr. Nick Maragos of Rochester, Minn; Kevin Law- rence of Winston-Salem, N.C.; and Nancy Takis of Lansing, Mich. Stan Takis of Lan- sing serves as scribe for the team and Dr. Grammenos Karanos of Holy Cross serves as consultant. Metropolitan Methodios, liaison for the National Forum to the Holy Synod, has been providing valuable sup- port and guidance.
The next “Oloi Mazi” team meeting will be in Boston in early 2016. [End]

I pray that the consultation of Dr. Karanos will bear fruit for a project whose other members are either severely lacking or at best have varying abilities to properly set texts to music.
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I'm not disagreeing with you but how specifically are conditions getting worse? From what I observe, the same people continue to propagate the Greek-American choir repertoire with dwindling numbers when younger folks and seminarians, both male and female, are chanting with joy and vigor.

Of course this is a big country so I can't see everything so curious to know your thoughts.

R.
Conditions are getting worse by the participation, in official church projects like the above, of people very far away of the traditional chant.

Dr. Grammenos Karanos, a psaltis, is described not as a member of the team but just as a consultant, a term with dubious meaning.
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2 μέλη είπαν "Ευχαριστούμε domesticus!" για αυτή τη δημοσίευση:
Nikolaos Giannoukakis (13-01-16), saltypsalti (13-01-16)
  #13  
Παλιά 13-01-16, 16:40
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saltypsalti saltypsalti is offline
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Conditions are getting worse by the participation, in official church projects like the above, of people very far away of the traditional chant.
…and in some cases, outright hostile to it.

JPP
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domesticus (14-01-16), Nikolaos Giannoukakis (13-01-16)
  #14  
Παλιά 13-01-16, 17:19
Nikolaos Giannoukakis Nikolaos Giannoukakis is offline
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Let me chime in with my experience of what my outreach to the "Forum" resulted in (or did not).

Two years ago, the Forum representatives invited choir directors, chantors, priests to a grand summit to talk about and then decide on initiatives.

I will spare you the "choir" (i.e. polyphonic) initiatives.

I made an evidenced-backed argument that the Forum is not even providing on-line links to material on the internet (instructional, archival, libraries, and so on) for a serious consideration of their stated objective "to assist chantors and to promote Byzantine chant".

The power-that-is PLEDGED to have the Forum web domain modified within the year (this was two years ago) to include all this information and to work with the experienced chantors in the US to factually promote BM.

The result is still this:

http://churchmusic.goarch.org/

and

http://churchmusic.goarch.org/resources/chantresources

I correctly foresaw that the platitudes were just that.

Concurrently, the Holy Synod, and His Eminence, Geron Archbishop Dimitrios were sent a very detailed letter with evidence that the "Forum" is in fact hostile to BM (not to mention poorly-equipped at best), and asking him and the Synod to remove all responsibility of BM from the "Forum" so that it could be entrusted to a Synodical committee on BM that would be SERIOUS in its member constitution and serious in its mission. The "Forum" could thus be relieved of the burden of offering platitudes ad nauseam thus focusing on its real and cherished objectives, while a Synodical Committee, through serious and active membership, could begin - via Holy Cross for example - a nation-wide initiative.

The outcome? Two years later, and not even a courteous reply (even platitudes would have been civil) by the Geron and the Synod.

What conclusion would one rationally make about the seriousness of the Greek Orthodox Church of America to disseminate BM?

Contrast this with effective actions by the Metropolis of Toronto (Canada) [in practice an Archdiocese on its own that answers directly to the EP], where even though choirs do exist, the Metropolitan, his council, priests and many people, are seriously promoting BM.....

NG.

Τελευταία επεξεργασία από το χρήστη Nikolaos Giannoukakis : 13-01-16 στις 17:27.
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3 μέλη είπαν "Ευχαριστούμε Nikolaos Giannoukakis!" για αυτή τη δημοσίευση:
apostolos (14-01-16), domesticus (14-01-16), saltypsalti (13-01-16)
  #15  
Παλιά 14-01-16, 01:32
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Let me chime in with my experience of what my outreach to the "Forum" resulted in (or did not).

.
.
.

Contrast this with effective actions by the Metropolis of Toronto (Canada) [in practice an Archdiocese on its own that answers directly to the EP], where even though choirs do exist, the Metropolitan, his council, priests and many people, are seriously promoting BM.....

NG.
Guess it's time to move to Canada. That's not a serious answer. "How Long?" Of course the choir situation is just symptomatic of larger problems with respect to how people approach Church and the Faith in this country. To say more would come across as judgmental, but at least in terms of the "canon of endurance" argument, what tradition is really gaining? Even if it's fairly dully analyzed Byzantine music using western notation, that's an improvement in my eyes.

It's honestly difficult to tell - but indeed the existence of such programs as the aforementioned really make you scratch your head. Nothing will happen if clergy don't seek to implement good music and parish agree to invest the resources, regardless of how much music is produced by any committee.

Too many clergy are happy with the status quo, and to let their parishioners run off and do whatever they want so long as people stay involved and the parish keeps operating.

"Does the priest support chant?"
The answer to that should be "more and more, yes" as the seminary continues to graduate potential clergy with proficiency in chanting.

R.
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  #16  
Παλιά 14-01-16, 08:20
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GabrielCremeens GabrielCremeens is offline
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Oloi Mazi team members include Maria Keritsis, National Forum chairman; Dr. Vicki Pappas, committee chairman; Fr. Chrysostomos Gilbert of New York, Dr. Tikey Zes of San Jose Calif;, Dr. Nick Maragos of Rochester, Minn; Kevin Law- rence of Winston-Salem, N.C.; and Nancy Takis of Lansing, Mich. Stan Takis of Lan- sing serves as scribe for the team and Dr. Grammenos Karanos of Holy Cross serves as consultant. Metropolitan Methodios, liaison for the National Forum to the Holy Synod, has been providing valuable sup- port and guidance.
The next “Oloi Mazi” team meeting will be in Boston in early 2016. [End]

I pray that the consultation of Dr. Karanos will bear fruit for a project whose other members are either severely lacking or at best have varying abilities to properly set texts to music.
While I have no knowledge of the Byzantine musical abilities of the others members of the committee (other than Dr. Karanos of course), I would simply like to briefly comment that, without knowing about his aptitude in the art of composition, Fr. Chrysostom Gilbert's dedication to, love of, and exceptional ability in the Psaltic Art was always inspiring to me during my time at HCHC. I personally was very happy to see his name on the list. The recording below is him chanting the Theotoke Parthene.

In Christ,
Gabriel
Συνημμένα Αρχεία
Τύπος Αρχείου: mp3 theotokeparthenepentecost.mp3 (3,21 MB, 16 εμφανίσεις)

Τελευταία επεξεργασία από το χρήστη GabrielCremeens : 14-01-16 στις 14:59.
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  #17  
Παλιά 14-01-16, 09:33
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Guess it's time to move to Canada. That's not a serious answer. "How Long?" Of course the choir situation is just symptomatic of larger problems with respect to how people approach Church and the Faith in this country. To say more would come across as judgmental, but at least in terms of the "canon of endurance" argument, what tradition is really gaining? Even if it's fairly dully analyzed Byzantine music using western notation, that's an improvement in my eyes.

It's honestly difficult to tell - but indeed the existence of such programs as the aforementioned really make you scratch your head. Nothing will happen if clergy don't seek to implement good music and parish agree to invest the resources, regardless of how much music is produced by any committee.

Too many clergy are happy with the status quo, and to let their parishioners run off and do whatever they want so long as people stay involved and the parish keeps operating.

"Does the priest support chant?"
The answer to that should be "more and more, yes" as the seminary continues to graduate potential clergy with proficiency in chanting.

R.
I don't disagree with your opinion, and Holy Cross' efforts are well-known and appreciated.

BUT. It's very important the hierarchy to just SHOW first that really really appreciates chanting. It's easy. In the next official visit to the US by the Patriarch let a psaltic choir to chant during the Liturgy.

To me it's totally unacceptable even the term ''Church musicians''. Inside the Church ''musicians'' have a name, psaltai, chanters. Using the above term ''musicians'' you can justify the use of every kind of music in the akolouthia.

So, the church can show willingness to restore chant, first in small things like these I described above, and then, slowly, with stronger actions.

Generally, byzantine studies in the US universities are wide-spread with publications and various projects. It's very difficult to me observing the official church not to encourage byzantine chanting and chanters. On the contrary supports teams and actions by ''musicians'', with the participation of psaltai, just consulting. Insulting, I say.
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