Can a Western-trained musician perform accurately the microtones of Byzantine Music?

If no, why in your opinion? If yes, how?

thanks,
Dimitri

Well actually, I think they can. But I think it is only possible after immersing themselves in BM and only if she/he has a good ear. By immersing themselves in BM I mean extensive listening and also extensive practising with a teacher or established chanter that also has a good ear.

Perhaps equally important as the question of whether or not a western trained singer can chant the microtones is if a western trained singer can actually achieve the vocal techniques chanters employ so as to produce a more authentic sound and performance practice. This in some respects may be harder than getting the pitches right.

I have heard recordings of western musicians singing BM and what strikes my ear as being unauthentic is the performance practice. Much like when an established and competent chanter attempts to sing secular music (like an amane for example). While the pitches and other technical musical elements may be "correct", to someone with knowledge of the style the performance may not actually sound like an amane because of the vastly different tecniques employed in the performace practice of the two styles of music.

Here is something written on the topic by a performer of both western music and BM

“Byzantine chant involves moving the larynx in a way that is not customary for Western singers,” says Boyer. “This style of singing produces a slightly nasal tone, somewhat like a drone, with a full, round vibrato. It shouldn’t be a thin nasal voice, but a richer tone with a lot of space behind it. It’s a vocal technique that allows for flexibility to sing in the cracks, microtonal intervals or ornaments that you can achieve by moving the larynx. It also allows you to sing for long periods of time without tiring, and that helps with Greek Orthodox services, which often last a long time.”

Click to expand...

it was taken from this article:
http://grhomeboy.wordpress.com/2006/07/27/john-boyer-sings-byzantine-chant/


I think I have also read something regarding the differences in vocal technique between western music and BM on the stanthonysmonastery web site - it may have been something in the links section. I will look for it later.

Has anyone else got info re this topic? What are other's opinions on this? We have some members who have come to BM after first being trained in western music. What is your experience?

Kiriaki

Well i think that anybody agrees that a "good ear" is not an eastern privilege.
I met Julien Jalal Eddine Weiss,http://www.alkindi.org/anglais/artists/artists_julien.htm
and found out that he could discern the slightest of differences in micro intervals. He could understand when a chanter changed slightly the pitch in bou in Legetos for example. The chanter himself thought that he was singing the same bou throughout the piece, but Weiss knew more...

But his ability came through hard work and took many years.(And much more...)

I agree that the microtones can be performed but the performance style is hard to achieve. Are there any recordings of Western trained musicians performing Byzantine chant with its traditional style i.e. without a noticable Western "colour"? Does the question make sense at all?

Dimitri

Im sure there are. Just as there are Greek people (for example ) who can speak English with no noticeable Greek accent... but they are rare. I believe I can sing the very very simple and few hymns that I know without giving away my "westerness" totally. The fact that I am a woman however in itself is seen as unauthentic. Maybe we should start a discussion asking if women should be "allowed" on the analogion alongside men?

Kiriaki

Sure. What I am after in this discussion is to find out what it takes for a western trained musician to learn to perform decently (at least) Byzantine chant pieces. That would help people wanting to learn I think. Or maybe deter them But I wouldn't want to be misunderstood here. Appreciating, trying , learning and experiencing this rich cultural heritage that is Byzantine Chant is a valuable and worthwhile cause in itself in my opinion. The fact that someone may chant Byzantine with a western colour should be the least of the worries of a student starting to learn this art (it's natural). To achieve excellence though I believe we agree one has to immerse themselves in the culture (any culture) and now it remains to explain what it means "to immerse themselves.."

An example of what I am talking about may be Ross Daly and Kim Sanders (in instrumental music)..

Dimitri

Can a Western trained musician learn Eastern music? Sure --just ask George Harrison of the Beatles who studied Indian sitar under the great master Ravi Shankar (he found the use of microtones in Eastern music to be quite liberating). It's a question of how open, flexible and willing the student is. Blues and jazz people I have talked to get it (note bending and atypical scales are part in parcel of the art), folk singers (particularly the Irish and Scottish old style singers) get it. The only reason, I think that classical singers have been pursued is because there more of them and they almost universally read (albeit Western staff notation). I sometimes wonder if we're going after the wrong people...

John, the salty Psalti

Anyone can learn BM IMO but it is harder than european music due to the delicacy of BM. The problem with knowing european music before learning BM is that you come with a programmed ear and so your ear may not be sensitive enough or open enough to be willing to hear the 72 microtones that exist. I suppose its similar to asking a graffiti artist who uses spray cans to paint fine art like Turner. Although the graffiti artist knows how to compose a work of art he is not used to the intricacies of mixing colours and painting details as he couldn't do this before with a spray can.